John 17 word study


In the High Priestly prayer of John 17, Jesus prays for his disciples: Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, 2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to [a]all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. 3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I glorified You on the earth, [b]having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 Now, Father,glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I hadwith You before the world was.

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; 8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. 9 I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; 10 and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. 11 I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. 12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the [c]son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled. But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them [d]from [e]the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.

20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may [f]believe that You sent Me.

22 The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected [g]in unity, so that the world may [h]know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

25 “O righteous Father, [i]although the world has not known You, yet I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me; 26 and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

Note that in verse 22, Jesus’ prayer for his disciples is that they may be one, just as “we” (He and the Father) are one, that they may be perfected in unity so that the world may know that you sent me. Reading about this high priestly prayer in Pope Benedict’s Jesus of Nazareth, I came to realize that this is another proof of Jesus’ desire that all Christians be united in one Body. And if Jesus desired it, as long as it was God’s will, he got it. He instituted the universe, and it came to be. He also instituted a universal Church, and we know that it, also came to be. The fact that there are divisions in the Church is apparent. But the Church is still the Church. If the Church isn’t all Christians, then Christ was a liar. Or a fraud. We know that neither of these is true.

We must start acting as though our separated bretheren, those we agree with and those we don’t (for we are all, frankly, separated bretheren in Christ-nobody follows Mim perfectly), are our bretheren. Doesn’t mean you have to agree, doesn’t mean you can’t argue about it. But you must treat everyone as separated bretheren, as with love.

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48 thoughts on “John 17 word study

  1. I cannot accept that you are a Christian.simply because of your false teaching.
    The rcc is the Whore of Babylon. Rev17
    Your emphasis on mary,is unbiblical,to say the least.
    And the dogmas of rcc/rome are of demonic origin.
    You really need to repent , get saved !!!

  2. What false teaching? Where does it say, in Rev 17, that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon?

    MY emphasis on Mary? What gives you the right to judge whether or not I honor the Mother of my Lord? Most Protestants take Mary out of the plastic at Christmas, sing “Round yon virgin mother, and child” and then put her back in the plastic. Forgetting that she stood at the foot of the Cross, and was a follower of Jesus His whole life.

    Got some proof of your statements, or are you just going to keep spewing vomit?

  3. By who’s authority do you have the right to criticize? If you provided something useful, I might listen. As it is, I’d never come to your church, based on your witness. I’d tell you to go take a hike.

  4. You are spewing yourself atm
    She was not the only person at the foot of the cross,there were other disciples there too.
    Mary is only unique,because she bore jesus, what about Elizabeth,she bore John the Baptist,…..she was chosen of God too.

  5. Mary is the only one who bore God’s son. Elizabeth was pregnant by Zechariah. There was only one other confirmed at the foot of the Cross-John the Apostle. Which also proves that Mary had no other children. Because Jesus would not have given Mary’s care over to John if there had been other children.

  6. I’m not criticising, I am contradicting…
    That’s the bit that you don’t like..
    Like most catholics I talk to,
    Your ignorant of Scripture
    Brainwashed by dogma
    Blinded by your catechism
    Deaf/blind to the truth of Gods word
    Cannot be reasoned with,
    And don’t have guts or integrity,to admit,that they just might be wrong..

    Apologies for my lack of subtlety ….

  7. Contradict, criticize, whatever word you like to use. You can say whatever you like, but until you show why we should not honor Mary, it means very little.

    But this post is about John 17. What do you have to say that’s relative to the point?

    I’m not ‘most Catholics you talk to’. I know Scripture, and I’m far from brain-washed or blinded. I studied my way into the Truth, and that’s where I sit. Discovering more and more of the Truth every day, and sharing it with my brothers and sisters.

    If you think you have something to ‘reason with’, I have not seen where you showed anything, other than pointing your finger and shouting ‘You’re wrong’.

  8. We don’t pray to Mary. We ask her to pray for us.

    It’s only necromancy if you’re conjuring spirits. Mary is body and soul in heaven. Proving she’s sinless, and always was. Had she not been, she would probably be in purgatory.

  9. Why don’t you do a study on prayer,and tell me where in scripture prayers to mary is,…your catholic friends do it…

    Are converted intellectually, or born again, converted spiritually..
    ??
    A genuine polite question..

  10. There is nothing in Scripture indicating that mary was sinless,or that she is in heaven body and soul.

    I suggest you CRV a proper bible,and stop using Best that Charlotte disgusting catholic catechism..

  11. Does Scripture say anything about intercessory prayer?

    Can you rephrase your genuine polite question? I don’t know what you’re asking.

  12. Revelation 12:1 shows Mary bodily in heaven, and proves that she was sinless, because nothing sinful can enter heaven.

    I suggest you stop making value judgements. I don’t promote one Bible over another, but do suggest one that has all the books in it. For what it’s worth, I’ve read the Bible several times over my years as a Catholic, but only read the Catechism of the Catholic Church once.

  13. I don’t read catholic materials thank you.
    They’re unedifying,and of demonic origin.
    Stick to Gods word.

  14. I will make value judgements based on scripture.
    And I speak as I see fit,and without direction from you.
    If I cause offence…it is not my intention.
    I don’t do smooth talking either.

  15. So, then, you’re saying Scripture comes from demons? The site I presented you gives plenty of scripture.

    Scripture

    I. A State After Death of Suffering and Forgiveness
    Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.

    Matt. 5:48 – Jesus says, “be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.” We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.

    Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

    Luke 12:47-48 – when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

    Luke 16:19-31 – in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God’s graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

    1 Cor. 15:29-30 – Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because their sins can no longer be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 Macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so that they may be forgiven of their sin.

    Phil. 2:10 – every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven, on earth, and “under the earth” which is the realm of the righteous dead, or purgatory.

    2 Tim. 1:16-18 – Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.

    Heb. 12:14 – without holiness no one will see the Lord. We need final sanctification to attain true holiness before God, and this process occurs during our lives and, if not completed during our lives, in the transitional state of purgatory.

    Heb. 12:23 – the spirits of just men who died in godliness are “made” perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.

    1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 – Jesus preached to the spirits in the “prison.” These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.

    Rev. 21:4 – God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.

    Rev. 21:27 – nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.

    Luke 23:43 – many Protestants argue that, because Jesus sent the good thief right to heaven, there can be no purgatory. There are several rebuttals. First, when Jesus uses the word “paradise,” He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew “sheol,” meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord’s resurrection. Second, since there was no punctuation in the original manuscript, Jesus’ statement “I say to you today you will be with me in paradise” does not mean there was a comma after the first word “you.” This means Jesus could have said, “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise” (meaning, Jesus could have emphasized with exclamation his statement was “today” or “now,” and that some time in the future the good thief would go to heaven). Third, even if the thief went straight to heaven, this does not prove there is no purgatory (those who are fully sanctified in this life – perhaps by a bloody and repentant death – could be ready for admission in to heaven).

    Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 – here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.

    Baruch 3:4 – Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. Prayers for the dead are unnecessary in heaven and unnecessary in hell. These dead are in purgatory.

    Zech. 9:11 – God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.

    2 Macc. 12:43-45 – the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible.

    II. Purification After Death By Fire
    Heb. 12:29 – God is a consuming fire (of love in heaven, of purgation in purgatory, or of suffering and damnation in hell).

    1 Cor. 3:10-15 – works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).

    1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for “suffer loss” in the Greek is “zemiothesetai.” The root word is “zemioo” which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).

    1 Cor. 3:15 – further, Paul writes “he himself will be saved, “but only” (or “yet so”) as through fire.” “He will be saved” in the Greek is “sothesetai” (which means eternal salvation). The phrase “but only” (or “yet so”) in the Greek is “houtos” which means “in the same manner.” This means that man is both eternally rewarded and eternally saved in the same manner by fire.

    1 Cor. 3:13 – when Paul writes about God revealing the quality of each man’s work by fire and purifying him, this purification relates to his sins (not just his good works). Protestants, in attempting to disprove the reality of purgatory, argue that Paul was only writing about rewarding good works, and not punishing sins (because punishing and purifying a man from sins would be admitting that there is a purgatory).

    1 Cor. 3:17 – but this verse proves that the purgation after death deals with punishing sin. That is, destroying God’s temple is a bad work, which is a mortal sin, which leads to death. 1 Cor. 3:14,15,17 – purgatory thus reveals the state of righteousness (v.14), state of venial sin (v.15) and the state of mortal sin (v.17), all of which are judged after death.

    1 Peter 1:6-7 – Peter refers to this purgatorial fire to test the fruits of our faith.

    Jude 1:23 – the people who are saved are being snatched out of the fire. People are already saved if they are in heaven, and there is no possibility of salvation if they are in hell. These people are being led to heaven from purgatory.

    Rev. 3:18-19 – Jesus refers to this fire as what refines into gold those He loves if they repent of their sins. This is in the context of after death because Jesus, speaking from heaven, awards the white garment of salvation after the purgation of fire (both after death).

    Dan 12:10 – Daniel refers to this refining by saying many shall purify themselves, make themselves white and be refined.

    Wis. 3:5-6 – the dead are disciplined and tested by fire to receive their heavenly reward. This is the fire of purgatory.

    Sirach 2:5 – for gold is tested in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation.

    Zech. 13:8-9 – God says 2/3 shall perish, and 1/3 shall be left alive, put into the fire, and refined like silver and tested like gold. The ones that perish go to hell, and there is no need for refinement in heaven, so those being refined are in purgatory.

    Mal. 3:2-3 – also refers to God’s purification of the righteous at their death.

  16. You don’t have the authority to promote one translation of the Bible over another. All you to is throw stones, as far as I can see. If you presented some valid, or even invalid, arguments to promote your point, it might be different. I’m not going to watch your hour-long videos. You won’t even say what your system of beliefs is, so we have no way to discuss anything.

  17. The Church is inspired by the Holy Spirit, so the Catechism cannot be of the Devil.

    You sound like those Pharisees who said that Jesus drives out demons in the name of Beelzebul.

    And yet, when I present you Scripture, you ignore it, don’t read it, obviously.
    LOL! Last warning. If you won’t present your views in a concise manner, I’ll just stop trying to converse with you.

  18. You are not warning anyone.
    You have falsely accused me Mr..

    I said the dogmas of the rcc,are of the devil.

    RCC dogmas, are not based on Scripture.

  19. Hey, friend, you came here. So if you wish not to communicate, don’t. I will answer you, if I want to, on my website.

    The Bible came from the Catholic Church. It is inspired by the Holy Spirit. So is the Catholic Church. Therefore, the Catechism is also inspired by the Holy Spirit.

  20. Forces the last couple of days, I have been thinking about prayer.
    I am no expert on the subject at all .
    I was looking at
    Hebrews7:25
    Acts4:12
    2Tim2:19
    Rom8:26,27
    These verses of Scripture,from the KJV,are in their own way,relevant to the subject of prayer,in my understanding of prayer.

    You Christian brothers/Sisters of mine,will of course know what I am on about.
    In the disciples prayer,most Christians sort of sign off,in that prayer with the words,in Jesus name,Amen,and other prayers,that are personal between you and God.

    Therefore I apply 2Tim2:19,as having a great deal of relevance.
    ….depart from iniquity….which I do try very hard to do,and pray about quite a lot.
    2Ti 2:19
    19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. **And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.**
    (KJV)

    Heb 7:25
    25 Wherefore he is able also to **save** them to the uttermost that **come unto God by him**, seeing he ever liveth to make **intercession** for them.
    (KJV)

    To come unto God,by and through,Jesus Christ,boldly approaching the throne of Grace,sanctified,by the blood of
    Jesus Christ The Lord as the ONLY mediator between man and God.
    Jesus Christ,our Lord and Saviour ever making intercession for us before the Father,The Lord God Almighty.

    The Christian needs Jesus as mediator,for we cannot otherwise boldly approach the throne of Grace.Jesus is the Only one who is perfectly able to do so,because of what he did on the cross.
    His death tore the veil of the temple in two.
    His blood being poured out,spilled on the ground,speaks for us also,after the similitude of Righteous Abels blood,did to God.

    Act 4:12
    12 Neither is there salvation in any other:for there is
    **none other name under heaven given among men**, whereby we must be **saved**.
    (KJV)

    There is no other name given,whereby we might be saved,or who is able to intercede for us.

    Rom 8:27
    27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh **intercession** for the saints according to the will of God.
    (KJV)

    It is Jesus Christ,The Lord,that searches the hearts,and knows the mind of The Spirit.
    It was Jesus who gave up his Spirit on the cross,that we might receive him.
    The Holy Spirit at Pentecost,empowered the body of Christ,the believers in Jesus Christ,and he empowered us ,to do the will of God,and to pray always,and share the Gospel with authority.

    Sealed unto the day of Redemption,by the Holy Spirit.

    Rom 8:26
    26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities:for we know not what we should pray for as we ought:but the Spirit himself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
    (KJV)

    The Holy Spirit is a person.
    He communicates our prayers/petititions to the father,because of our infirmities,as we know not what to pray for as we ought to,He intercedes for us…

    Intercession,then,must be according to the Will of God.{ Rom8:27}
    And if according to the Will of God,as previously stated,then this must be according to the Word of God,as given in the
    Holy Scriptures.

    To conclude then, Jesus Christ died on the cross,to pay the price for our sins,as a ransom for many,to send the Holy Spirit to empower the church,and sign in his own blood,that bill of ordinances against us,that we may boldly approach the throne of Grace,in prayer by His Holy Spirit interceding for us.

    The Holy Spirit of course,will not communicate anything to God,that is not in accordance with the Will of God,and we know Gods will by His Word,as given by the Holy Spirit to the Prophets,and the Apostles,in Scripture.
    Throughout all of New Testament Scripture,The Blood of Jesus Christ is effectual for the believer,in propitiation for sin,entrance into the Holiest,in prayer,and being sprinkled by the blood of Jesus Christ,being filled by the Holy Spirit,are saved.
    Eph2:13. Rom3:25. Heb10:19,12:24,13:20.
    1Peter1:2. 1John1:9.
    Throughout all of my study,there is NOT one mention of Mary as being an intercessor,mediator,or mention of her name in the necessity of prayer.
    Her name,whilst respected by Christians,is not efficacious in prayer,and lends no authority in presenting our supplications/ petitions to The Only Father..
    # The name of Jesus Christ,is the only effective name in prayer.And No other!!!
    ,…………………. ……………………………
    A few observations.
    JW’s do not believe Jesus is God.
    How do they pray,so called,if denying Christ is God.?

    ***Muslims need a carpet and compass.***
    ***They deny that Jesus died on the cross***
    ????
    Marys name is not efficacious in prayer.

    If all these groups are not departing from iniquity, I.e. adding to Gods word,ignoring His word altogether,or denying the Deity of Jesus Christ,then who are they really talking to.??
    # It is NOT the God of the Bible!!
    **This may seem judgemental of me,but it is evident,that they follow another gospel,that is no gospel at all.**
    # The Lord Rebuke them for their following a LIE.

  21. We pray to Mary as the mother of God. God tells us to honor our father and mother. Jesus tells us, from the Cross, behold your Mother. We honor Christ’s mother.

    It’s not required. It’s suggested, and it’s beneficial. You should try it sometime.

  22. When he was on the cross.
    Unity of those who believe in him.
    Not unity between christians,and papist idolaters and heretics.

  23. So the Gospels of the Bible aren’t talking to us? Jesus was, indeed, speaking directly to us.

    Regarding Christ’s prayer for unity, the first Christians are Catholic, so your statement makes no sense. Since you offer nothing of substance I think I’m just going to ignore you from now on, and stop fishing your comments out of my spam box. All you want to do is criticize, you’re not interested in dialogue. Hasta la vista, buddy.

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