I was banned on an atheist website


I got this blog post (http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/why-are-the-young-abandoning-christianity/), about why are the young abandoning Christianity, and decided to respond until they cut me off.

And so I took their last shot (that they won’t allow me to reply to) and reply here:

It’s not often I see a really persistent Christian here, and “David” below
is not only persistent but an unashamed apologist for the Catholic church.

His arguments seem to be copied from the apologists’ playbook – long
debunked, of course, and when challenged he fails to justify, instead
starting some new argument under a different comment.

Let’s play Apologists’ Bingo!

Theology

* The religion you argue against is not my religion (considering the whole post was talking about Protestant Christianity, and I told them so, this is what I said.  True.)

* You don’t understand what the Pope meant (considering the misquotes, that’s what I said.  True)

* God is a mystery that we’re all too stupid to fathom (another truth, bluntly put.  If we can understand God, then he’s not God.)

* You don’t understand our sophisticated theology (I never called our theology sophisticated, but I did say that they don’t understand it.)

* God exists even though the concept is incoherent, because Love exists and you can’t explain it (He got that one right, too!)

* I can explain the discrepancies in my holy book (False.  I said there are no discrepancies in “my” Holy Book)

* “For those who believe, no evidence is necessary. For those who don’t, no amount of evidence is sufficient” (Yeah, that’s right.  And I showed you evidence. But you didn’t think it was sufficient.  See? I proved that axiom.)

* “X” is not punishment, but therapy (substitute excommunication, RPF, Hell) (False.  I never said hell is therapy.  There’s no therapy after you die.)

* Why don’t you ever criticize “X”? (substitute Islam, Protestants, Buddhists, etc) (False.  I started off saying they were talking about Protestants, not Catholics.  Of course they scattered chaff, like the priest sex scandal and Galileo, but atheist usually means anti-Christian)

Science

* My sect supports science (True.  It does-totally, except when they exclude God)

* My sect predicted scientific discoveries (False.  My faith discovered scientific discoveries)

* My sect invented the scientific method (True)

* Many great scientists belonged to my sect (which can therefore take credit) (That their discoveries were in the name of the Catholic Church, because all Catholics from the age of discovery were devout, we proudly proclaim them ours. Likewise (see below) when someone claims Catholicity, but doesn’t live it, we push them out.  It works both ways.)

* We have no idea why “X” happens (substitute some biological process)(No, we accept why they happens, but we come to a point where we can’t explain further, or we have some idea, called a theory, but can’t prove it as fact.)

Evolution

* My sect agrees with evolution (No, I said my faith (Catholicism is not a sect) doesn’t disagree with some forms of evolution theory.)

* Scare quotes around evolution (???)

* Microevolution and Macroevolution (Yep)

* Evolution doesn’t contradict the Bible (Yep. Some protestants say it does.  Catholics don’t.)

* My sect doesn’t accept (Darwinian) Evolution (True)

Evidence

* Can you prove the virgin birth and resurrection didn’t happen? (That’s right.  Prove that it didn’t.)

* There is evidence for God (That’s right, it’s right under your nose, and all around you.)

* Do not seek evidence for God (“He will not be tested”) (Testing and seeking evidence are two different things.)

* You can’t prove that there is no God (True statement.  You cannot prove a negative.)

* I can prove that God exists (True, and I did)

* I refuse to prove that God exists (Patently false.  The owner of the blog didn’t approve it.)

* “X” is genuine (substitute Shroud of Turin or other relic) (Didn’t say that.  I said I believe it’s genuine.  You said it’s a painting, and I showed where there was proof against that.)

* My sect doesn’t claim that “X” is genuine (substitute Shroud of Turin or other relic) (Regarding the Shroud, that’s right, it doesn’t claim either way.)

* Science said that “X” is genuine (substitute Shroud of Turin or other relic) (Regarding the Shroud, I said that there is scientific evidence that point toward genuine-ness.  It doesn’t matter if you want to, or don’t want to, believe it.)

* You can’t explain “Y” about “X” (substitute feature, then Shroud of Turin or other relic) (Regarding the Shroud, true-you can’t explain how the image got there, or what it is (paint, or radiation, or whatever))

* “X”, although genuine, does not confirm or deny Christianity (It’s not a teaching of the faith, and doesn’t prove or disprove it.)

Child Abuse

* My sect wasn’t responsible for child abuse, only the individuals in it (True. The Church does not teach that it’s good to abuse children, or any human, for that matter.)

* Society approved of child abuse at the time (I never said that, I said that loosening of morals made it more possible, which is true.)

* It was only a very few priests (This is a true statement.  By comparison, and to this day, all other institutions which are responsible for children have a 400% likelihood of a child being abused by an adult than the Catholic Church.  Today, it’s even more, because the Church has a zero tolerance attitude. By the way, that doesn’t make what those few priests did right.)

* It’s the fault of the gays (I never said that. It’s the fault of those priests.)

Atheism

* Atheists have a simplistic notion of God (False, atheists don’t have a notion of God, or if they do, it’s a wrong one.)

* God is Simple (Thomas Aquinas) (True, complex yet simple.)

* Atheists don’t know about religion (True, they use their pre-conceived notions of what religions say/teach/do.)

* Misrepresents own sect’s holy book or other teaching (True. To be fair, most humans do.  That’s why we need an authoritative teaching body, the Magisterium.)

* References Antony Flew (a life-long atheist who came to the realization that God is.)

* References Antony Flew and misspells his name (ooooh.  Whatever.)

Morality

* My sect welcomes all (True.  By its essence, its name)

* Sect “X” (some other sect) is bad (Nope, didn’t say that.)

* My sect doesn’t judge other sects (That’s true, we are to embrace everyone-it’s what “Catholic” means)

* We hate the sin, not the sinner (Yes.  It’s what we strive to do.)

* Membership of my sect is voluntary (Yes.  Can you name someone who was forced to be Catholic?  Do you know that if someone became Catholic by force, they’re not Catholic?)

* The teachings of my sect don’t change over time (That’s true.  We get new situations to apply our teachings to, but the teachings don’t change.  The times change.)

* The teachings of my sect change over time (Contradictory and false)

* My sect was at the forefront of social progress (True. Raised the state of woman and child to equal in dignity with men.  Teaches equality of dignity in everyone.)

* Any complaints against my sect can be explained as the actions of imperfect individuals (Yes.  That’s true.  Had to think about it for a while, but yes.  There is no fault in what the Church teaches, for she teaches Christ.  How men apply Christ’s teaching is a different matter.)

History

* Nazis were atheists / Atheism was responsible for the Holocaust (Whatever Nazis claim to be, they most certainly were not Christians.  Christ did not teach that it was ok to gas human beings.)

* Ignores the pagan roots of Christian festivals (Easter, Xmas etc) (There are no pagan roots of Christian festivals.  False.)

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